tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post137386940454021291..comments2024-03-14T01:27:21.845-04:00Comments on Virginia's Life, Such As It Is!: My Thoughts on CJ Mahaney and Sovereign Grace MinistriesVirginia Knowleshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13851255511747838013noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-21570723913925152932011-07-26T00:42:34.701-04:002011-07-26T00:42:34.701-04:00Virgina, I enjoyed reading your comments. I am a ...Virgina, I enjoyed reading your comments. I am a current and newer memeber at Covenant Life Church. I don't have any long relationship with the church or with CJ, no alliances or warm fuzzy memories. I am thankful for your writing and that on www.sgmsurvivors.com that have been very enlightening. <br />I cringe at the thought of my offering money going to any kind of mediation. I'd rather send that money to some of my favorite missionaries, laboring and proving themselves to be above reproach. Thanks for your writing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-960809077553257352011-07-19T23:02:16.547-04:002011-07-19T23:02:16.547-04:00Very well written, and I agree with all you are sa...Very well written, and I agree with all you are saying, Virginia.<br /><br />Your recommendations for CJ/SGM (in the following post) are better than anything the board or CJ himself has been able to come up with! You should post that one on DH's blog.<br /> :)<br /><br />~AnonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-77936147684391192622011-07-18T08:06:19.267-04:002011-07-18T08:06:19.267-04:00I mentioned the influence of Bill Gothard in this ...I mentioned the influence of Bill Gothard in this post. This morning, I found this story in my Google Reader. The young woman worked for Gothard's organization, though she doesn't name it in the article. Apparently there is a lot of hero worship in those circles, too. Her words can bring healing and perspective to those affected by SGM. http://www.quiveringdaughters.com/2011/07/finding-healing-from-disillusionment.htmlVirginia Knowleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13851255511747838013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-89771330151339626902011-07-17T07:32:58.579-04:002011-07-17T07:32:58.579-04:00I found your comments wise and graceful. Thanks fo...I found your comments wise and graceful. Thanks for sharing them. Hope people listen.Miscellanniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00217118810915147656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-45761479206451258942011-07-16T04:17:55.043-04:002011-07-16T04:17:55.043-04:00Virginia, thank you so much for all the thought an...Virginia, thank you so much for all the thought and prayer that went into this masterpiece.I had to read and re-read your points about "fear in members". The one that nailed me was "fear of taking initiative on new projects because that will be seen as pridefully “putting yourself forward”.<br /> I can still hear my MLC pastor saying "Let another man notice your gifting, don't toot your own horn." That has stuck with me, not only in my life at church but in my personal life where I am often unable to offer suggestions, if I am knowledgeable about something, because I am aware that it will be seen as "tooting my own horn." It is so freeing to be a part of a church that ASKS people from the start "how are you gifted, and what are you bringing to church to serve others, ultimately to the glory of God?" I am so sorry that writing what you have over the last two posts have cost you friendship from MLC. I know that since we left over 2 years ago, our phone has not rung one time, and to think that these people were supposedly closer than blood relatives for over 20 years. I agree about the SGM Refuge and Survivors sites. How can SO many people, who used to be members, all sound so similar in their perspective stories? PaulAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-5277976762844917302011-07-15T23:53:01.652-04:002011-07-15T23:53:01.652-04:00Nice revision to this blog entry. It gives a good...Nice revision to this blog entry. It gives a good summary of the events and issues. <br /><br />Lets pray for SGM.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01527099698623190200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-90908760752358227082011-07-13T14:42:14.327-04:002011-07-13T14:42:14.327-04:00Anonymous said...
Just a thought about the Ki...Anonymous said...<br /><br /> Just a thought about the Kingsway and Fairfax comments this Sunday. At the time these were given, CJ's whole letter of explanation about the nature of the charges hadn't been released.<br /><br /><br />Maybe that is the case. If Josh Harris knew a lot more at the time than the others that just might explain it. That is likely since Harris is located where CJ is and SGM Headquarters. <br /><br />Now it does look like SGM Leaders (minus Josh) are trivializing what Mahaney did. This is really sad.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01527099698623190200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-15063547528136248232011-07-13T13:57:12.768-04:002011-07-13T13:57:12.768-04:00Thank you for this point. IMHO it is point on and...Thank you for this point. IMHO it is point on and conveys almost everything I have had issues with SGM. I was brought up in an SGM church in El Paso, Texas. I, too, was there a quarter of a century. I still love the church (people & pastor(s)) there dearly. I left 5 years ago. There were issues I was not comfortable with tugging at my heart strings for a few years prior to my leaving. It is very clear to me that I cannot return to SGM. I know there is no perfect church out there, but SGM is just far too imbalanced for me. Josh Harris' message I found to be very refreshing and while I am afraid to hope for real change, for fear of being let down, there is hope in my heart after reading his words and his not making light of this "situation" allegations, etc..Kyleenhttp://www.flappergirl1925.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-7429338593889172882011-07-13T00:00:54.627-04:002011-07-13T00:00:54.627-04:00All -
I think most people reading this are believ...All - <br />I think most people reading this are believers. Can we agree to pray for all who have been mentioned? Regardless of our own personal perspectives, let's pray that God would be glorified through this. I, for one, don't presume to know how God intends this to unfold , but I know that I can lose sight of His glory when I pray for one specific outcome. Just a thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-19596995534401544512011-07-12T23:53:47.384-04:002011-07-12T23:53:47.384-04:00Steve -
Just a thought about the Kingsway and Fai...Steve - <br />Just a thought about the Kingsway and Fairfax comments this Sunday. At the time these were given, CJ's whole letter of explanation about the nature of the charges hadn't been released. Rather than go into the details and nitty-gritty, they were in a position to give an overview - what categories to use as you process the info. Personally, I thought it <br />was helpful at the time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-90669747841662045252011-07-12T18:06:21.522-04:002011-07-12T18:06:21.522-04:00Anonymous
As one who has been involved with the b...Anonymous<br /><br />As one who has been involved with the blogs since they started I would agree with what I am hearing about Harris and what he is doing at CLC. His message was a breath of fresh air and feel there might be hope despite these revelations that Detwiler has shared and Josh admitted were at least mostly true. <br /><br />Harris did a good job of shoring up his church from a possible implosion. If he is sincere and keeps the course I am confident that at least CLC can be saved. <br /><br />I do wish I could say that I have the same encouragement from how Kingsway and SGM Fairfax (VA) handled this. <br /><br />For the Kingsway response go the church's website and download/listen to this past sunday's message.<br /><br />For Fairfax go to their Facebook page:<br /><br />http://www.facebook.com/sovgracefairfax<br /><br />look for the video titled "special announcement"<br /><br /><br />I will be curious to hear what your impression is. These two are quite a contrast to Josh Harris's message that included confession and alarm etc. It was like these other churches were talking about some other event that wasn't serious. <br /><br />Just so you know I have a blog that critique's Harris's "kissing dating goodbye" book and now you hear me being encouraged by what Harris said. That might just tell you something. <br /><br />www.ikdg.wordpress.comStevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01527099698623190200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-5662004497154534772011-07-12T14:29:42.999-04:002011-07-12T14:29:42.999-04:00Excellent comment, Anonymous at 2:08. Yes, we need...Excellent comment, Anonymous at 2:08. Yes, we need to read the protest blogs with discernment. And as I said in my update and comments, I am encouraged hearing of what Josh Harris has said, and impressed that he has allowed so many dissenting comments on his own blog. If there is also an on-line audio of the Sunday evening Q & A meeting, you are welcome to post the link.<br /><br />Thank you for your grace-filled words. My heart goes out to the precious saints at Covenant Life, the epicenter of this heartbreaking quake.Virginia Knowleshttp://www.virginiaknowles.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-61433229179258111032011-07-12T14:08:00.032-04:002011-07-12T14:08:00.032-04:00I haven't read every single comment or word wr...I haven't read every single comment or word written in this blog post and added at the bottom, but I wanted to leave a quick comment as someone who is actually a member of Covenant Life Church, and has been sitting through meetings about all of the stuff my church is going through. <br /><br />quick note: I am aware of the blogs out there (sgmsuvivors and such) but I would say that Please don't read them as the absolute truth or that they have things right. each to his/her own opinion. <br /><br />This past Sunday evening, Josh Harris, lead VERY helpful 2 1/2 hour meeting that is the start of a whole bunch more meetings like it. With about 500 people there, and a whole list of questions the congregation had asked about CJ and all of this, we all then spent 2 1/2 hours going through those questions, asking new ones, and hearing the history behind the letters Brent compiled. CLC is becoming aware of the holes in their leadership and also the holes in SGM. I was very very grateful and have much respect for Josh and the pastors at CLC about how they are handling this confused mess. They know they've messed up, they are freely admitting that, and they know that they need to grow. We are all sinners, and we all make mistakes. I really believe that GOd is using this "upset" to bring to light things that need to change. it is for good. as of right now, it isn't clear if CJ will come back to leadership or not. this "leave of absence" is not of a determined length. <br /><br />I would like to encourage everyone reading this blog and commenting and writing this blog to be careful of judging someone and something you don't know everything about. and to be careful on how you read any documents out there. Brent Detwilers documents are just ONE side of the story. Don't judge until you have heard all sides. <br /><br />thanks for reading.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-50959370656350552652011-07-11T17:35:00.203-04:002011-07-11T17:35:00.203-04:00Let me say Publicly some of what I shared privatel...Let me say Publicly some of what I shared privately... I read your blog and felt shock. I really didn't know... Andy and I are newer to metro (not sgm though) and we just had no clue... I've read the documents... And we are praying and processing... Thanks for your honesty... I dont have a full conclusion on anything but God has used you to open my eyes to closely examine scripture and the church.<br /><br /> I blogged on the sin this has drawn out in my own heart- idolatry and pride... http://makingthemostofeveryopportunity.blogspot.com/2011/07/fallen-idol-one-mans-sin-exposed-my-own.htmlGinnyhttp://makingthemostofeveryopportunity.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-68258616148188576822011-07-10T23:08:52.061-04:002011-07-10T23:08:52.061-04:00I would encourage others to listen to Harris's...I would encourage others to listen to Harris's message. Listening to that message makes me think there still might be hope for SGM or maybe at least CLC. <br /><br />Harris indicated that Mahaney still hasn't acknowledged all of his sin. This lack of acknowledgement was no surprise having read Mahaney's announcement of his "sabattical." <br /><br />Harris didn't try and minimize the problems and acknowledged there was sin and that the group was under discipline from the Lord. <br /><br />Beside that it was quite encouraging the message. If SGM follows through on what Harris said then there may be hope. <br /><br />I will say that I didn't like how Harris compared bloggers and especially Detwiler to the Philistines or Assyrians that God used to punish Israel. Most of the bloggers are Harris's brothers and sisters in Christ that saw the need for change in SGM before SGM Leaders had the guts (Harris's word) to do what was needed.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01527099698623190200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-81880857282094019572011-07-10T14:29:15.591-04:002011-07-10T14:29:15.591-04:00Thank you for taking the time to write this all ou...Thank you for taking the time to write this all out. We were a part of an SGM church for 5 years and left 2 years ago. You summarized the issues very well and I pray that people will take the time to really search out the truth and not just blindly follow.Christyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12887928615513412979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-39356513188672966862011-07-10T11:18:22.422-04:002011-07-10T11:18:22.422-04:00Virginia, thank you for this concise, truthful and...Virginia, thank you for this concise, truthful and grace-ful post. Our hearts break for those we know still in SGM. May God tear down the walls and hold up the hands of the weak for His glory. Appreciate you, sister. - P.D.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-68517341474569588492011-07-10T08:55:53.718-04:002011-07-10T08:55:53.718-04:00I really hope people, especially current SGM membe...I really hope people, especially current SGM members take a Berean approach to what is being presented vs. a bury your head in the sand mentality. Sadly I think SGM and others they are aligned with are trying to get people to bury their heads in the sand about this. What is ironic is that the longer people choose to remain ignorant of what really happened, and the longer SGM just glosses over the problems then the greater the solution will have to be such as closing down SGM. <br /><br />SGM Leaders have as used their teaching on what is gossip and slander to suppress questioning and knowledge about what happened. SGM Members don't let yourself get dupes this time.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01527099698623190200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-18855513344875590792011-07-09T23:21:31.726-04:002011-07-09T23:21:31.726-04:00Virginia, we will keep you in prayer for being so ...Virginia, we will keep you in prayer for being so bold as to state your beliefs on your blog. This will be welcomed with "Take me off your blog" and cold stares and loss of Face Book friends "defriending" you. People hate when you question those that they don't dare ever question. (God is the ONLY one we should never doubt)<br />PaulAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-89686403328891153392011-07-09T22:45:34.949-04:002011-07-09T22:45:34.949-04:00Before everyone starts to attack Virginia for her ...Before everyone starts to attack Virginia for her position on CJ, they may want to read the 600 pages of emails and notes from CJ, Brent, Dave Harvey, Josh etc that paint a very disturbing picture of a man who does not like to be questioned, including using blackmail to quiet someone that challenged him.<br />http://www.scribd.com/sgmwikileaksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-65772872491782238402011-07-09T20:20:44.193-04:002011-07-09T20:20:44.193-04:00Amazing article, Virginia! You expressed my own se...Amazing article, Virginia! You expressed my own sentiments so concisely and clearly. I, too, was part of an SGM church for a quarter century and have the same concerns expressed here. <br /><br />50,000 hits on the websites mentioned is not bitter gossip. It is public outcry.mephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13687457616035024361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-84698842489520652522011-07-09T14:35:20.191-04:002011-07-09T14:35:20.191-04:00Virginia, thank you for a wonderful post. I felt l...Virginia, thank you for a wonderful post. I felt like you had a microphone in our living room over the past few days as we read the documents saved by Brent and leaked onto the internet (Thank God for Brent record keeping and whoever the brave leaker was) My fear is that this Sunday CJ will be promoted to the position as the most Humble Man on the face of the earth when anyone with any sense can see the only reason he came forward was because these documents show how vindictive, controlling and unteachable he is - not qualities found in a humble man. No one at Metro will dare read the documents because "it would be wrong to think ill of CJ", in the same way East Germans would never read "propaganda from the West" Keep writing and may God bless you where you are planted. It is wonderful to be in a church where you don't have to (to quote you) "fear of taking initiative on new projects because that will be seen as pridefully “putting yourself forward”<br />We are encouraged to use the gifts that God has given us. The pastor actually "equips the saints for works of service." PaulAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-2314742807655862742011-07-09T14:08:02.475-04:002011-07-09T14:08:02.475-04:00Nice post.
With all that Mahaney knows he has do...Nice post. <br /><br />With all that Mahaney knows he has done I can't believe that Mahaney in his letter would even suggest that he might be coming back as the leader of the group. <br /><br />Hopefully this will be a wake up call for SGM to make the needed changes they need to make.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1012349346682683577.post-50893829538153207742011-07-09T09:55:53.077-04:002011-07-09T09:55:53.077-04:00Thank you for this thoughtful and honest post! (I ...Thank you for this thoughtful and honest post! (I still miss those folks that we left behind in our SGM church (Titusville), and continue to pray for them and the leadership... maybe we knew each other? We visited Orlando many times...)Carolehttp://sgmrefuge.comnoreply@blogger.com